Season 2: Ep. 19 - Graceful Rulebreaking with: Jess Silver

(0:27)

Kirsten: Hello and welcome back to Graceful Rulebreakers. I am your host Kirsten Lee Hill, and I'm super excited to welcome today's guest. Jess Silver is a Communications professional and Amazon best selling author, motivational speaker, medical writer and editor and executive director of Flex for Access, where she uses her lived experience as an individual with cerebral palsy to coach individuals with similar neurological conditions, on the importance of using fitness and sport to create capacity for improvement of these conditions. Jess' personal vision is to create societal change in the perception of physical disabilities, injuries and limitations by creating opportunities to access mainstream fitness and sport, which is so amazing. Thank you so much just for being here, I'm really excited to talk to you.

Jess:  Thank you for having me, I'm very excited as well.

(1:18)

Kirsten: So, to get started, I would love it if you could tell me a little bit more about Flex for Access, and what that looks like and what types of activities you all do.

(1:28)

Jess: Of course, so Flex for Access is my registered non profit organisation that I founded. It's been a nonprofit for three and a half years now. But before that it functioned as a social media awareness campaign, that I founded in May of 2015, to raise awareness of the importance of fitness and sport promotion, as a means of managing cerebral palsy, but also other physical, I like to call them challenges, I don't like to use the word disability personally, but physical disabilities and injuries and to really emphasise the importance of our lifestyle for all individuals, notwithstanding any challenge, and where the desire to found the organisation came from, was from my own personal experience, because I was born with cerebral palsy, and having been very active my whole life and had a passion for sport and fitness, but really for sport as when I was a kid, you know, I've been a huge basketball fan, fan of professional sports, and really felt that my personal experiences with dealing with different types of adversity that are associated with my CV. So, the way CP affects me is that it affects my ability to walk independently, and affects many of my motor functions that are associated with my physical abilities. So, as you can see, cognitively, I'm fortunate to have no impairment, but many individuals that have CP, depending on how the condition affects them may also have cognitive impairment, but for me, it only affected me physically. And so my whole life, I've spent years since I was a kid engaged in different types of therapy. And then later, as I got older, that sort of need to engage in therapy moved to, you know, how can I be active in ways that are actually interesting and fun for me. And so I developed a love and an interest in pursuing fitness.

(1:28)

Jess: And so that love and interest in pursuing fitness actually became, has become a huge passion of mine, and over the last decade, because I was training, I'm training at a very high performance level of fitness, I realised that you know, it has really helped me physically and emotionally, and just really allowed me to mature as a person and improve my physical condition and wanting to give others that same opportunity. So, entering Flex for Access, the idea for Flex for Access. And it first operated as a social media awareness campaign, as I said, and I was very fortunate to garner a lot of actual attention and traction with the hashtag Flex for Access where I got individuals to flex their biceps, or you know, engaged in fitness or sport, to and use the hashtag Flex for Access flex to deconstruct this notion of disability through engaging in adaptive fitness and sport promotion in the mainstream. And because I was so fortunate to garner a very strong presence on social media, I guess that's because of my communications background, and just the way that I'm naturally a connector to so many people, which I feel like we're going to be talking more about that. So it garnered a lot of attention and so, I quickly realised that in order to legitimise my efforts in what I was doing, I had to register it as a nonprofit organisation, or as a charity, but I went through to the nonprofit organisation. And I have, or I did rather, three and a half years ago, almost four now in this summer it's gonna be, and to date, the nonprofit has helped hundreds of individuals learn about the importance of adaptive fitness, and sport promotion, creating educational opportunities. So before, pre-COVID, I was doing a lot of in person, you know, speaking and coaching actual professionals and talking to parents working with youth, working with kids, doing a lot of that coaching. Now, obviously, that has shifted and I've had to pivot as an entrepreneur to doing that virtually, and so a lot of the activities of the nonprofit organisation are focused around the fitness and sport education, the awareness piece around it. But also, the funds that are raised are then allocated to gyms and studios, and instructors and strength and conditioning coaches, personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches, yoga instructors, for the fund for the training sessions to actually take place. And today the organisation has raised over $20,000 and helped hundreds of individuals actually engage with adaptive fitness and sport promotion.

(6:42)

Kirsten: That's awesome. For people who don't know what adaptive fitness is, how would you describe what that is?

Jess: I get asked that question a lot. And you know, every time I'm asked, every time I'm asked the love that I have for answering that question doesn't, you know, it doesn't go away or doesn't change. So, I think that a lot of people when they think of adaptive fitness, or when they think of, you know, an alternate approach to fitness or to doing anything with special population, like with individuals that have very needs, I think they think that, you know, the programme needs to be completely reinvented or re recreated to suit, you know, fully suit the individual's needs. And you need to recreate how we do exercises. And what I always say is that it's interesting, because we're not doing that. So adaptive fitness and sport, when I talk about adaptive fitness, all I'm getting at and all that my organisation does is I actually go in and I speak or I coach, strength and conditioning coaches, you know, so like I said, educators, parents, on this idea that, in fact, adaptive fitness and sport, or adaptive fitness, in this case, we're talking about fitness, is not any different from if you were to go to a gym, and you wanted to start learning how to squat, you know, individuals that have varied needs due to physical challenges, also learn how to squat, believe it or not, in the same way. But what I would say the distinction is, where the distinction is, is in obviously, how the individual's needs are addressed, their physical needs are addressed, and how what we call how the movement is scaled. So it's scaled down according to their limitations, right? So, when I'm working with a client, or when my trainers are working with me, the way that it would work is you know, we'd really have to communicate, and we'd say, okay, what's the goal, what are we trying to achieve when we're working on a movement, like the squat, you know, and then my trainer or I, when I coach other people would say, this is how you would do the squat. So, you would start off at the wall, for example, doing a wall squat, and you'd break down the movement, right? And then based on how the individual progresses through that plane of movement, you know, you make adaptations to suit their limitations and you go through progressions of the movement and regressions based on what the individual's level of impairment is, and what their needs and what their goals are. So, it's not that we're, you know, we're changing the way fitness is done. What we're doing is, we're looking at how we can vary standardizations of exercises I would call it, and modifying them to suit the individual's needs.

(9:44)

Kirsten: I love that because it does, I mean, I've worked with trainers before and it is the same thing. It's like they look at how I'm doing something or, I mean, I have, I was an athlete in college so I have, like, lots of injuries that I need to, like, do different things for but right it's kind of like they watch and that's like, okay, this is what we need to do. 

Jess: Yeah. And if I can't, for example, like if I can't take my movement, my body through a particular range of motion or through a movement, and what I always tell, I would tell a client or an individual that I'm working with, and what I know from my own personal experience of training every day, or almost every day, is that, you know, every day that you're in the gym, or every day that you're working out at home, it's almost like every day, you have to go through that assessment yourself and with the individuals that are helping you to say, okay, how is my body communicating with me today. And what I would say is that, for listeners who don't know anything about special populations and individuals that have physical limitations, or any other kind of limitation is that we maybe have to do that a lot more than, you know, a mainstream able bodied individual that does not have a varied need or special needs. But, you know, we're all kind of doing that, where you wake up one morning and you're feeling a certain way, and your body will, you know, move a certain way. And then the next few hours, it's moving a different way or the next day, it moves differently, right? So it's constantly recognising that and assessing and making those adaptations. But by no means, like, you know, what I call a squat, and, you know, squat 2, if I was teaching it to, like, an adaptive population, it's doing the exact same movement, but breaking it down. So if I can't do, if my client or I can't do a particular movement through a full range of motion, I look at, you know, what's the client's full range of motion? Or, you know, more or less? And how can I teach them to engage that part of their body that we're trying to target? And also have fun while doing it too, that's a big part of it.

(11:52)

Kirsten: Yeah. Do you feel like that there's work that you have to do around like destigmatising needing to modify movements, because I feel like, I mean, even just personally, I think there's always pressure I'm like, I want to do it exactly how this instructor…even if it hurts, you know, they mean I'm like, oh, like that's the right way to do it. So, I feel like there's a lot of internal dialogue and like feeling bad if you can, I'm curious.

Jess: Yeah. So that's a very good question. I go through that, I go through that very often myself. And you know, the more complex the movements are, the more complex the drills are, the more you go through it. And as the founder and executive director of my nonprofit organisation, yes, to answer your question, a lot of the work that I do is a very destigmatising, and is around explaining why is adaptive fitness and sport so important in the mainstream, because they kind of think about it as, okay, we, you know, individuals that don't have challenges can go to a gym where, you know, they don't need any modifications to go to the gym. Individuals that have varied needs, may need different modifications. So, why do we have to, you know, modify programming and make these changes so that individuals can engage or re-engage in mainstream settings. And I feel like that's a huge, if not the most important part of my work is to advocate for it, but not only advocate to actually create the opportunities, so every time that my organisation fundraises, and then we allocate the funding to a particular gym, or to an instructor, or trainer, or, you know, any establishment that it is, I feel like that's the most rewarding moment for me, because my organisation has actually created that opportunity to de stigmatise and also to be like, okay, this is mainstream now, it's no longer to sort of separate schools of thought.

(13:58)

Kirsten:  Yeah, I really love that, because it does seem like something that would be universally beneficial to people to learn to listen more to your body and actually, like, respect what it needs.

Jess: Yeah, and I think that another aspect that's really important that I, you know, drive home very often with the professionals that I work with, is for them to have that understanding, and I'm talking about like strength and conditioning coaches, yoga instructors, you know, personal trainers that are in strength and conditioning coaches, because there are those distinctions, right? Anybody who's in the field and like a sports coach, to understand that it's important because as an individual, and I can speak to this from personal experience that has a physical limitation, or that has any other kind of limitation, I can tell you that being an individual that does, so first of all, I have that lived experience. You don't always want to find yourself where you're going to a place that specifically, like, almost isolated from, you know, the rest of your peers. And so a lot of the work that I do is to really drive that message home of it needs to be mainstream. And here's how I can actually help you gym owners and trainers make this mainstream.

Kirsten: Do you feel like yourself, and also the people you work with, there is almost like, I don't know if it's like resistance or like hesitation to be more involved in sports and fitness, because it is always like, no, but you have to go to this like special place or like, you can't, you can't go to just the gym down the street.

(15:37)

Jess: Yeah, so for me personally, I've never had that like resistance, or, you know, lack of motivation, or I guess, almost like I would say, like fearlessness, you know, to just be like, oh, you know, I'm gonna just like, walk into this place, even though like, typically there isn't, there aren't individuals that are like me, you know, coming into this into this space. But that drives me more because I'm like, I have never allowed my disability or my physical challenges, I called it at the beginning to define anything that I do, you know, define me at all. So, and I have to be careful when I say this one, because I've lately been on a lot of podcasts and just in a lot of interviews, I don't want it to come off that I'm like, denying that I have cerebral palsy, like I fully understand that I do and I embrace it, like it's not going anywhere,  I was born with it, I know that, you know, it's here. But I do very clearly know in my heart and in my mind, because of all the work that I do that if you work very hard, and I'm talking about physical work, and also like, a side of it is mindfulness too, right? Like, the mindful training that we can do mental performance work that we can do also. But if you work very, very hard physically, you can actually make drastic improvements to your condition, and I've been one of those individuals that has done that. So, for me, there's never been that reluctance. I think that's a good word to use. To answer your question to like, you know, go into a space, in particular, because, for example, like, I have three, on another note, so I have three university degrees, right? And when I was born, the doctors told my parents like, don't even expect her to, like be able to go to university, or school, you know, just might be blind and deaf and not be able to speak, in addition to having like, my physical impairments, right? So, I wasn't even expected to survive. Like, when I was born, I was born at two pounds and six months premature. So, the way I, like, look at my journey is this is defiance, almost like this quest of, you know, defiance, and charting my own, like, direction through everything that I do. So like I've three university degrees. I'm a communications professional, medical writer, because I've had this interest in, you know, health and medicine since I was, like, in school. I knew that I wanted to go to medical school, part of me wanting to go to medical school. But I knew because of my physical limitations, that that wasn't going to be possible.

(18:25)

Jess: But then, you know, there's me who's always sort of, you know, searching for that other way to do something, you know, we're on a podcast here called Graceful Rulebreakers and a way to break the rules and go against the grain. That's, you know, that was why I reached out to you too, like be on your podcast, because that's just who I am. And so you know, I'm always looking for a different way to define what it is that I do and my purpose and everything that I do in life. So for me, I didn't have that reluctance. But yeah, I do find that with a lot of people that I work with, whether it's, you know, the gym owners who are telling me that they don't really have clients that are part of that population, because there's that reluctance or because their trainers don't know how to service that demographic, which part of me gets really sad to think about that. But it's a reality too, but it's also, that's where I feel like I have a responsibility to change that to make more of these opportunities for adaptive fitness and sport possible within the mainstream. So I kind of went around there, but I hope I answered your question.

Kirsten: Yeah, no, that's great. I really, I love that too, just thinking about making everything mainstreamed because I mean, bodies are different, you know what I mean?  So, I think, I mean, so many people need different things for different reasons, and I think that, especially if you're dealing with a challenge, like every space should be a safe space to like, meet your needs. And I think as, I'm actually trained as a yoga instructor, and it is makes me think that like, yeah, when you're going through that training, like you should be trained and how to deal with like, any body that like that comes through the door to work with you, that seems like part of your responsibility. 

(20:11)

Jess: Yeah. And the bottom line is that many practitioners and like yoga instructors are not, they don't have that training, and many of them that I've worked with, I've actually it's been very rewarding to me, because I've been hired as a consultant many times to work with yoga studios, where they're like, we want to break into this demographic, but we don't know how to do it, can you help our team, you know, learn more about how to create this adaptive programming. So, I that's why I love what I do, because I have the opportunity to not only learn from so many individuals and change lives, really, I mean, I think that might sound cliche, but actually, the work of my nonprofit organisation has changed lives for people because it improves their quality of life, right? So, not only do I have that opportunity, but I also had the opportunity to step in and be educated, but also be an educator, to educate others as well, which I love.

Kirsten: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired like your passion, like in your own life for the fitness and like, what… because I think that, I mean, at least personally, fitness is something I'd sometimes I have a passion for, and like sometimes I really don't, but like I know it's good for, intellectually know, it's good for me, but I'm curious, like, what, like, what brings you joy in the fitness? And, like, how did you get so passionate about it in your own life?

(21:42)

Jess: It's a really interesting and like, broad question that I think about often too. Well, honestly, I've started thinking about it more, because I've been asked about it so much. You know, I don't know if you're gonna ask me a question about my book, but I also recently published my memoir, and I can expand on that as well. So, I've been thinking about that question a lot. And I guess, for me, it was that, you know, growing up around sports, so growing up watching professional sports. Growing up, I was also I'm very much a tomboy, so I was all I was like, growing up, you know, I was always hanging out with my friends that were boys and guys like to play sports, and so I found myself, you know, with them also, because I understood sports. Like, I understood the game of basketball, for example, basketball is my favourite sport, soccer as well. I just gravitate towards sports, because I have an understanding for the game, and also, I guess, a very large part of it is that athletic journey that I was, I kind of alluded to, right? Because I started seeing myself as an athlete, even though I'm not a competitive athlete, but I started seeing myself as an adaptive athlete. And I really started seeing myself as an athlete when I was about 16 years old in high school, and my mom and I travelled to Ukraine actually to a rehabilitation centre. And I left school, I had to leave, like, I'm from Toronto from Canada, I had to leave school in the middle of school, like my semester wasn't done yet. But I had to leave because we were going to this Rehabilitation Centre for physical therapy, like really intense physical therapy. And then when I say really intensive, the regimens were about like six to eight hours a day of like, very intense therapy and then rehabilitation. So they also did things like massage therapy, and chiropractic care, like different, all sorts of different treatments and types of therapy. And I really started seeing myself at one point as an athlete then because, and even before that, but really then because I was thinking I was isolated from my friends at home. We left my dad and my sister, like most of my family members, right? Because we went away for a month. And something kind of went off in me and I talked about this in my book, where I started seeing the experience of being at the rehabilitation centre as an athlete, similar to, like, when an athlete is away at training camp, right? So, all they're doing is they're focused on their training camp, so that they're ready for the season once it starts like the regular season, right? And when I was going through all this really intense therapy, and a lot of it was painful, and I had days where I didn't know, you know, if I was gonna be able to make it to the next day. And even before that, because I went to another type of really intense physical therapy, like a camp when I was younger, up until the age of about 13. So, it really started, like, in my early teens, where I developed this understanding that what I was doing, and I think this is how I was able to keep myself at it, right? Because you have to think about how do we allow ourselves to stay strong and motivated, to be able to do whatever it is that we're doing, right? And I think that was the one way that I was able to cope was when I realised, I kind of said to myself, okay, think of it like your favourite athletes right now, and how they train and you're basically like them, right? And when I did that, that was when everything, like, shifted in my mind. And then I started developing, as I started getting older, and as I started, like training at the gym, and you know, really getting into studying, like biomechanics, because I even took I took biology in high school, in university, I'm really into, like, learning about the body. And the more that I got into it, I was like, I'm really passionate about this. So, it came from my own personal experience with the adversity, but also from admiring athletes and seeing that I'm like them, and then it came from, it sort of shifted from that, to the drive to have to choose, to want to change… see, I corrected my language there, because I said, to have the change, to want to change how fitness is perceived for the adaptive population. Because I understood, you know, before I found my nonprofit organisation, but because I was going to the gym, that people kind of felt, or maybe some people felt that I didn't really belong at the gym, where I was the only one in a chair going to my gym. And I said, no, I need to make this more like, you know, a more visible ready to make it more of like a mainstream thing. So it's not like, oh, my God, you're so inspiring, because you're at the gym, because you have, you know, your physical challenge. No, I'm at the gym, because I want to be at the gym. I want to get strong, right? So, it was really interesting for me, and I still think about it, you know, how I got so passionate about it. And I'm actually grateful that I have, because it's really hard to motivate yourself to train at a high performance level every single day.

Kirsten: Oh my gosh, yeah.

(27:18)

Jess: So yeah, that evolution in myself, I guess, and then how I started to develop a passion for it, is really interesting to observe even for myself. And my latest sort of addition to the whole experience, is that I actually became certified as an adaptive personal trainer myself.

Kirsten:  Oh, wow, that's awesome. So that's exciting.

Jess: It really went full circle because you know, I was really close with my trainer who I trained with for a decade at the gym. And he really inspired me, and it's like you said, you know what inspired you to get so passionate, I think was your question, and I really have to say that it's the people that I've met through this fitness journey that have inspired me and that have uplifted me to continue going through it, right? And just allowed my passion to flourish. So my trainer and the team at the gym and friends that I've made through the gym, and just asked me too, but really to think that now I've gone full circle and gone from you know, training to now becoming a trainer is what was a really cool moment for me.

Kirsten: So, thinking about like the graceful rule breaking aspect of this, I'm curious, how do you approach your conversations with like the gym owners and the yoga instructors because like with graceful rule breaking, what I talk about a lot is it's like, you kind of have to like know, the like status quo, traditional system. And to me, it's like, if you want to change it, it's almost like you don't come in, like just, like, being mean and like criticising every person and like being you're wrong, you have to be a little more tactful. And so I'm curious, what is your approach to having these conversations like educating people?

(29:12)

Jess: Yeah, so very good question. And I really I have to say, when I saw the, when I saw you pop up in the via guest site and a guest group, I was like, I need to talk to Kirsten, because I just saw, you know, so much of myself in what your podcast, like, the theme of your podcast drives home. So, I would say that I'm probably a Graceful Rulebreaker by definition, in that, you know, everything that I do, and be it through work or you know, like I mentioned going to university, that wasn't a thing that many people thought, maybe thought that I could even do, you know, and then and then having my own entrepreneurial career, like running my nonprofit, everything's been about, you know, going against the rules, finding my own, finding my own way, without anybody kind of telling me, you know, here's what it's gonna look like from A to B to C. And my approach that I have with when I talk to gym owners, and anybody that I work with, is I'm always very careful to do my research into their approach, so into their mandates into what makes these places unique. And what makes every single place, you know, have a different, have a different mandate, and tick differently, what makes every gym owner be, you know, that trainer that you want to go work with. So, what I do is I do my research into what they do, like very thoroughly. So I understand the ins and outs of their business, the first call that we have, that I have my intake call is very much about nurturing, you know what it is they do, telling them what I do, but more looking at it from the perspective of what is it that you do? And how can I help you change your approach to working with a new demographic? Have you even thought about working with this new demographic? So, I ask them, I prompt them, part of my graceful rule breaking approach, if we want to frame it as that is by prompting them to say, you know, have you thought about taking on this demographic? What are your thoughts around it? How do you think I can help you? And then I tell them, you know, my story and where I come from, and how I think I can actually benefit their business and why there would be a benefit and a return on investment for them to work with an organisation like Flex for Access.

Kirsten: Yeah, I love that. And do you, do you feel like there's ever or like, in all of your years, has there ever been a time where it's not well received, because this is something to talk about a lot too is like, I get shut down a lot. And so part of it is learning how to, like, how do you keep going and people are just like, no, we're not…

(32:07)

Jess: Yeah, and every time, you know what, every time that I'm shut down, I don't know, if you feel the same way, like, if it's just you know, our spirit of being entrepreneurs and being unafraid of taking that risk. Because I'm definitely, I can tell you, I'm not afraid of taking any risk. My life is pretty much by definition, a series of risks that I that I'm taking in, you know, like flying with it. And knowing in my heart what I want to do, what I'm passionate about, believing in what it is, who I am really, you know, trusting myself or developing that trust and flying with it. And you know, that for me, like it's really scary sometimes to be like, whoa, you know, I'm about to take this risk or like, you know, when I was thinking, like when I actually registered my nonprofit organisation, that was a moment for me, like, I had to think, wow, you know, what are the connotations of this move that I've just done. And I have lots of moments where, you know, the self-doubt creeps in. And yeah, I've been shut down. But every time I'm shut down, I find that I'm newly inspired to challenge myself to find another angle of how I can go in that next time, and do better, pitch my work differently to that next gym or that next, you know, policy stakeholder, or policymaker that I'm about to talk to you. Like, rejection, I don't know something about feeling of being rejected, like, yeah, it sucks and it hurts and you know, kind of like, how many more times do I have to do this, but every time that I do it, I'm like refuelled to find a new way to be creative, and inspired to challenge it even further.

Kirsten: I love that, I do I keep track of all my… I have like an email folder of like all my rejections, just as you know, all those I was to start getting rejected. I was like, let's just start… It is it's kind of like motivation. And I also think it's, I think a lot about like, fit and like people who are ready for change, and that's like, I can't make someone like ready to change things, you really mean? So, sometimes I'm rejected, I'm just like, okay, well, like you're just you're not ready for this yet. 

Jess: You know, part of me, that's actually a very good point that you bring up and I feel like it resonates strongly with entrepreneurs. I don't know how many of your listeners are entrepreneurs, or you know what it is that all of us will find ourselves doing. But it's actually a very good point that, you know, a lot of it is to be very patient with yourself, but also the other people on the other side to think, like you just said, yeah, you're not ready for for me or for what it is that I'm trying to tell you about. And not argue with them. You have to be very careful. I've had to be very careful not to get argumentative, and you know, or think that it's me, but just kind of step back. And I think that just takes time. You know, the more that I, the longer that I've been at this, I've been learning more and more about other people, how other people do business, and about myself too. It's like that constant process of evaluation and self-evaluation.

(35:24)

Kirsten: Yeah. Another thing I want to talk about, because I think we're very similar in the sense is, I also and I've talked about this on the podcast, I am not risk averse, like, I just don't… and I'm curious, if you think it's, are you naturally not averse to risks? Or do you think it was learned, because I struggle with this a lot, because I actually have a hard time when people are like, oh, like, I want to be willing to take more risks, and I'm like, I don't ever even really think it through. I just am like, always, game for the risk, and I'm curious, if you feel that way also?

Jess: Um, so yeah, I would have to agree. Probably because I've had that question posed to me recently, it was posted in a different context where somebody said to me, like, you're so positive, a lot of the time or, like, I find that you're so positive, where does that positivity come from? And it's not like, I had to teach myself to be positive, like, I feel like, um, you know, and I don't want to sound, I don't want to come off as sounding like, conceited or self-absolved on here, but, you know, I think that a lot of that is innate, and is in our character. So, whether I was just, you know, born as a strong person, but I definitely think that a lot of it is also nurture, too. So, you know, the whole nature versus nurture debate, like, because I was born with my condition, um, with CP. And because I was also raised in a family where my parents and my sister, my parents always said to us, to my sister and I, you know, you're going to be able to achieve whatever it is that you want to achieve, as long as you work hard. And they instilled very important values in us, of working hard on our integrity of not being afraid to put ourselves out there, you know, not being ashamed of ourselves because of, you know, differences that each of us have, not because I have my physical challenges and my sister has no challenge, right? My parents never said to me, oh, you're in a wheelchair, like, you use a wheelchair for mobility. So people are gonna, like, look at you differently, and you have to be ready for this, they never said that, like, it was almost like, I don't know, I'm going to use the analogy here of like, being thrown into a pool and being like, you know, you have to figure it out, like, figure out how you're gonna, how you're gonna swim, how you're going to tread that water. And, and it was just that, you know, immersing yourself in different experiences. So, I don't think you could have developed the capacity to be like to not be like, really, like afraid of taking risks, or being risk averse. I think a lot of it just comes from your personality, and from the people that you surround yourself with, right? So, a lot of my friends, most of my friends, like, you know, they all went to university, they're very successful, they're very ambitious. So, I had that ambition. But then again, a lot of my friends are not entrepreneurs. And they say to me, like, I could never do what it is that you do. So, I feel like a lot of that is just, you know, our own personalities and obviously, the more that you hone the skills that you have, the obviously the more you develop them, right? So, like, I'm an entrepreneur now and like I love what I do, and I'm becoming, I like to think and hope that you know, every day I'm going to become better and better because I actually put a lot of work into learning and self-improving how to be better from like, every aspect of my life not just my work that I do and not just fitness but everything that do.

(39:12)

Kirsten: I like that point too, because I think that's like how I try to unpack risk for other people because I think to your point like I think it had a lot to do, so much of who we are is like shaped by how we grow up, but then you think about there are things that you're able to change, like, if you work on it, right? And like if you could get comfortable with smaller risks then eventually you'll be more comfortable with bigger risks, it made me think of it because my family life growing up was a little strained but I had one parent who was very much like nothing was ever good enough. You know what I mean? It was just like nothing was ever good enough. And I was like and from that standpoint, like I should have had no, I should have no confidence, right? Because like that's what I grew up, like, you're not good enough, you can't achieve anything, yet, I went on to achieve a lot. And to your point, it's because I worked on it and was just like, consistently, like, I see that I don't have a lot of confidence. So like, I need to, like submerge myself.

(40:17)

Jess: Yeah, so one of the things so you know, and I'm going to be very transparent and very candid with you. I haven't actually said this on any other podcast. But this is just, you know, the way that our conversation is taking shape, I think a lot of that being unafraid of taking risks, and you know, what's the next big risk I'm gonna take, like you said, I don't think about the size of the risk. But I feel like it comes from that point of being rejected and feeling like, like you said, you know, where you get rejected, people don't feel like they, like their work, like they can see the value in your work. But because I don't know, maybe it's because I'm stubborn and I'm also very determined, because, you know, I'm just, I have a very, like, I'm very, I'm very determined. And I'm very, like, a lot of people will say that I'm resilient. But the reason why I am is because every time I'm told no, every time somebody says like, you know, you don't belong here, or like, you know, I would apply for a job, and then I would be turned down, like, I would get the opportunity, but I would be turned down, or the opportunity wouldn't pan out. That firing me, my own personal, like desire to keep going, had to be ignited by me, because if it wasn't, I would just be told no, and you're not good enough for anything. You know,  you're physically challenged, you can't really do anything, because you have, you know, difficulty taking care of yourself. And so how can you do anything meaningful in the world. So that, you know, developing that desire to constantly take risks, comes from exposure of, you know, being in very uncomfortable situations, but also developing the discipline to keep working at yourself. And, like, believing in yourself and trusting yourself to think, no, I am like, I actually do have skills. I'm actually a very, you know, capable, intelligent individual. And I'm going to find my own way. That's, you know, that's where it comes from.

Kirsten:  Yeah. And I think that is something that we do really have to, like, work at, because I think it's to me, it's like, no matter how many years I've been in business for, like, five years now, I think, and it's like, no matter how, how many years I've done this, like, I still have doubts, and like, there are still experiences that I'm like, oh, gosh, like, should I not be doing this? Like, am I like, maybe I really can't do this. And it's just so, I think it's nice to normalise that that happens, and also that like, you can continue through that. You know what I mean? 

(42:51)

Jess: Yeah, no, I do. And that's why I said to you, as why right away, I said to you, I think we're like, that's why, you know, I saw that we're so similar without even talking to you. Because of the points of the, you know, the themes that your podcast discusses, and I just, I really aligned with them. You know, and I believe that, you know, when people say, oh, like, you have to go to school to get, you know, the certain skills to be qualified to do this. And, you know, people will say to me, like, do you have the credentials, and a lot of times, like, I have lots of credentials, right? That I've developed, I have a master's in creative writing, I have my medical communications degree. I'm a certified personal trainer now, like I had, I have lots, I'm a researcher on human subjects, like I used to work at the Children's Hospital, I have lots of credentials. But what I always say is, no credential is going to have more value than the work that you do, putting yourself out there and giving your heart to what it is that you do every single day. So a credential is important, but the actual knowledge and practical knowledge that you have, definitely, and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing institutions, I'm not because I have three university degrees, like I'm totally not, education is important. But that next step that you take with embracing the risk is more important than the education you have.

Kirsten: And I think similarly, something I talk about a lot is I have a PhD and people are always like, should I get like maybe I should get a PhD and I'm like, if you're getting it because you think that then you're gonna feel like super confident and like an expert like that's the wrong reason to get it, because it's like to me, similar to you, no matter how many degrees and certifications I get, I'm like same problems. It's just like the exact same problems. Now I have a new credential. And I still have self-doubt, right? And so to your point, it's like there's all this other work that you also have to do, like a degree doesn't take the place.

(44:53)

Jess: Yeah, it's about manifesting the skills honestly and like nurturing the skills that we have, from yes from our professional backgrounds that we've developed from our education, but then taking that next step to being like, what am I doing to apply those skills, and to constantly, you know, work on improving those skills. So, I have lots of, I have many friends that, you know, went to university, but right now they're not utilising their skills that they learned in university, maybe to the extent that I am. And I'm also, because, I don't know if you would agree, but as an entrepreneur, what I found, too, is that we're constantly learning, right? Like, you're constantly immersing yourself in new trends and like with social media, for example, like I'm constantly learning about, you know, how to use social media, how to leverage audience engagement, even with the pandemic, like one thing I've had to keep immersing myself in is, what platforms do I need to use virtually in order to continue to have traction with my work in the nonprofit space. And most people don't constantly do that, have that ability to immerse themselves in learning and then taking that learning to practical application. So, I think that's really important. That's a really important aspect of it.

Kirsten:  Absolutely. Well, I'd love for you, can you tell us a little bit about your book? Because I know you mentioned that, and we'd love to hear about your book.

(46:27)

Jess: Yes. So very exciting. That was a very exciting thing that happened in 2020, for me I published my book. Yeah, it took seven and a half years on and off to write. And it is my memoir, it's called Run an Uncharted Direction, and it's available on Amazon. So for the listeners that are interested in learning more, and reading the book, getting it, it is available on Amazon, you can get into either the ebook version, or the paperback version, and tells my story. It is my memoir, so it tells my life story. But it really captures the importance of the themes of sport and fitness, to charting my own path, and also to other people's, like, how it, why it resonates with why fitness and sport are important on all levels for every individual. And even if individuals find that they don't find, you know, fitness fun or engaging, there's still something that they can find within sport that will resonate with them. Or with you, I should speak to your listeners, within my book on that theme, and it's also very much about the importance of communication, and when I'm talking about communication, I'm talking about, you know, my actual work as a communications professional, my love for writing. So I've had this love for writing since I was six years old, I started out writing poetry and short stories, and then moved to prose. And I got my master's in creative writing from a prestigious college here, called the Humber School for Writers, where many authors actually walk through their doors, and became, you know, world renowned or very, very famous authors in Canada, so honoured to have that degree under my belt. And the book, really, the main theme is about fittingly taking risks, and flying with your intuition and trusting your heart, and realising that we're all on a journey that's uncharted. So, I don't know if you can see, but I have a tattoo on my arm that says uncharted, and there's a bird at the end of, at the end of it, with swings open. And for me, that really has encapsulates my journey, I felt that, you know, everything in my life has been uncharted, and been about, you know, finding my destiny, and my purpose through experiences that are not known, and even if some of our answers are given to us, because each of us, you know, have things that are that are known in our lives, or that we think that, we think we know, you know, and then as we grow and we learn, and we develop new competency in different skills, that changes, that knowledge changes, but even the things we know, as we move in me and we grow, that changes and so the book is really about embracing the unknown, and learning through experiences and open yourself up to new experiences. And the last chapter is called flight 2413. So, I was a huge, huge Kobe Bryant fan. Absolutely admired and loved the basketball player, Kobe Bryant championship, basketball player, Kobe Bryant, and he really was instrumental in inspiring me on my own sport journey, and love the sport of basketball. Also, I really felt like I had similarities to him and to his personality, because I also speak Italian like he does, love learning, you know, love learning languages, love communicating and inspiring others. And so the chapter is called flight 2413 because I really wanted that chapter to encapsulate my experiences as an entrepreneur and risk taker, and what does that mean in defining your own flight in life. So, the book is very much a journey, tells my own story. But it's also very much to inspire other individuals, to not be afraid to take risks along your own journey, to learn from your experiences, use communication and stories, storytelling as a powerful, powerful tool to connect. There's some poetry in the book as well, for those listeners who are fans of poetry as well. And it's really like a reflection on what the human condition means. So what does actually, you know, waking up every morning and living our life mean to each and every one of us? And how can we improve through engaging in fitness and sport, and just engaging in as many different pursuits as we can to be unique individuals running on our uncharted path. So, again, the book is called, Run an Uncharted Direction, and it's available on Amazon.

Kirsten: Amazing. And could you also share how people can keep up with you after the podcast?

(51:59)

Jess: Yes, of course. So if you want to, for those listeners who want to follow me on social media, they can follow me on Instagram by following my own personal account, which is @Jesssilverrr, and then at Flex for Access is my nonprofit organisation's account. And you can engage with, for those of you who maybe have questions about, you know, becoming engaged with Flex for Access or learning more about the activities of the nonprofit organisation, you can visit www.flexforaccess.ca and hit the Contact Us tab and get in touch with me there, and also use the hashtag flex for access in posts of yourself, flexing your bicep or engage in training at the gym, or you know, exercise in sport within your community. Now, if for those of you who don't feel comfortable going to the gym, if you're doing it at home, use the hashtag flex for access on your posts, engage in fitness in sport, and let's help to redefine the importance of sport across all populations, whether adaptive or mainstream as well.

Kirsten: Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. This has been such a great conversation and I really appreciate you taking the time.

Jess: Thank you so much, Kirsten, I really appreciate your time, and hopefully our paths will cross again.