Season 2: Ep.03 - Graceful Rulebreaking with Chiara Townley

(00:29)

Kirsten: Hello, and welcome back to Graceful Rulebreakers. I'm your host Kirsten Lee Hill, and I am super excited about today's guest. Her name is Chiara Townley and she is incredible. She is a published writer, contributes to several publications and actually uses writing and her intuition to provide guidance to others. She was born in Italy, has lived in the UK and Spain, and she is now based in Portland, Oregon. You consider yourself a Spiritual Counselor. Is that correct, Chiara?

Chiara: Yes. Spiritual Counselor. It's correct.

Kirsten: I love it, I love it. Thank you so much for being here. I have been really excited about this interview because I love talking about spirituality.

Chiara: Nice, nice. So, yeah, it's perfect that I'm a guest.

Kirsten: How did you get into that? How do you end up in that type of work?

Chiara: Oh my God. Yeah. That's a long story of my life, I guess.

Kirsten: Yeah. I would just be so curious because, I mean, I love all that stuff. I'm so fascinated by the chakras, tarot and astrology and I kind of just stumbled across it. Like, what drew you to it? How did you end up there?

(01:38)

Chiara: So, I was born in Italy and I was born in a Catholic family. So my dad forced me to go to church when I was young. He would drag me and I hated it. Um, I just hated it. I was like… when you're forced to do something, right? It creates the opposite effect. So, when I was the right age to then make my own decisions, I was like, no, I don't, I don't want this in my life. Like, it may be true, maybe not, but I am going to find my own truth. And so I knew that I would find a different spiritual path or maybe I would go back to the same, but I wanted to do it on my own. I wanted to find my own spiritual path. I attended university in Milan, this is where I was born. So, I went to university and then I moved to London after I graduated. And that's where, like, the spiritual thing, I would say now it's spiritual, at the time I didn't know, but it was like the first sign that there was something bigger, um, that for us, you know, and it happened when I met my now husband because I, um, was working in a hotel and then his balance came, uh, to the hotel and at the check-in I saw him, he was out with the bags and I heard this voice, it was very clear, very powerful. It said, you're going to marry this guy. Um… and it was, I didn't know where it was coming from, what that was, I just knew I had to follow it and it was just powerful, and it sounded so true, but it kind of like stayed with me throughout all the difficult path that we've been through because like he's American, you know what I mean, Italian. And there was a lot of stuff that we went through during the relationship. We also broke up at a certain point. Um… my friends thought I was kind of, like, going crazy because I still said, you know, I'm going to marry this guy. But things at that point didn't look really good. You know, we had broken up and, like, he was dating someone else, and I had that voice though in me, that was like that trust and that faith that I wasn't able to explain to anybody, but that that's the voice that kind of like took me to the finish line, let's say, because then we had, uh, our happy ending, we have got married. Um, so he was a spiritual experience, I didn't know at the time. Um, but throughout my life, in my mid twenties, from my mid twenties, I started to read more about spirituality and like a variety of books, you know, from the law of attraction action to the chakras.

(04:20)

Chiara: And just different systems, I just realized it was just much bigger that I thought, it wasn't just like religion. You know, you grew up in a Catholic family, you think that spirituality is religion. Um, and so piece by piece, reading these books, I started to kind of put together my own, um, beliefs, you know, I'm taking a little bit from every book, um, what resonated with me. Um, and so, you know, with time I created my philosophy, my religion, if you want to call it, but taking different elements. And so that was like reading a lot of books, so like really self-taught, um, from many years. And then the thing that really changed everything for me was motherhood. So, I became a mom in 2019. I had my first child, I wasn't ready for the emotional turmoil that came of it. I wanted this child. Um, but you know, you always hear that parents are really tired, you know, you know you're going to be physically exhausted. What I didn't think about was like emotionally, that would be hard emotionally. I suffered from postpartum depression and anxiety. And, uh, and that really cracked me open. I was like, what's going on? I've always been kind of, like, very self-aware, but I had to go deep and do kind of, uh, investigation work in order to understand, um, I was open to getting external help and I talked to my OB at the time and my husband was very supportive. But what was going on was that the more I talked about the feeling that I had, the more I identified with it, there was something about, keep on talking about the negative and I felt it even more. So I'm not saying that it's like that for everybody. It helps to talk to professionals, it helps to talk to other people, for some people. For me, it didn't, I was like, this is not doing any good. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask the people around me, the people who love me, to remind me of who I was before this, so that I don't attach my identity to these temporary emotions. And then I did some investigation work that took me back to the chakra system to really put it into practice, maybe for the first time in my life. Like, I've known a lot about it, but I never really well let's, let's just start to feel a little bit like, where is the blockage here? What is going on? It's started to listen to my body more, to my energy. And I felt like a blockage, like a pressure on my chest and my heart.

(06:48)

Chiara: And so based on the chakra system, I used it as a framework to understand that I had lost the self-love in the process of becoming a mother, because when I had this little being, um, I wasn't sure I was able to take care of it. And so when you start to feel that you're not able to do something, you start to convince yourself because your brain tells you, you have the emotion that it's like temporary anxiety is, like, comes and goes, but your brain attaches meaning to it. And so my brain kept on telling me you're a bad mom, you're a bad person. And you start to convince yourself of that. And in the process, you lose love for yourself because when you start to think you're a bad person, you lose love for yourself. And that came kind of like, um, an enlightenment moment for me, and it was like, I lost love for myself, this is where the issue is. And when you find the root of your anxiety, because anxiety is such a general term, right? You need to find the root of it. When you're… what I found the root in self-love was like, this is what is missing here. And so through practices that I learned throughout the years, like meditation, loving kindness, visualization, and sending light to the space of the heart and repeating affirmations every day about loving myself, I was able to heal and I felt really powerful. Uh, I was like, I was able to heal on my own. This means that we all have that power. Like, we just need some tools.

(08:11)

Kirsten: I love that. That's incredible. That's really amazing. I think people, a lot of times think about, like, especially things like tuning into the chakras and being able to heal yourself as like a gift that, like, some people are born with and some people don't have. And I love how you talked about how it's something that's like within us that we all can develop. And I'm wondering, if you can talk a bit more about that, because I know one of the, like, the status quo's that your interested in changes, like, spirituality is thought of as just like this… I think in a lot of spaces, it's still like this weird other thing, right? And so the idea that it's really something that's inside all of us that we can cultivate, I'd love to hear more about that from you.

(08:54)

Chiara: Yeah. My definition of spirituality is the fall of the illusion of separation. Uh, it means that when you understand that we are all connected as humans, we are connected to the planet and we are connected to something bigger, whatever you want to call it, right? No label, source, universe, God, don't care. When you start to feel these deep connections, you become spiritual. You don't need to do anything specific, but you need to kind of embody and integrate this identity inside of you because we're so programmed to just feel that we are our, our job, or we give each other labels all the time. But when you start to see the bigger picture and that you're really connected to other humans, to the planet and to something bigger, you become spiritual in the process. And then you can use different tools, right? Then the taro or the chakras are simple tools that connect you to that truth. But the truth is that we are all connected and we are connected to something bigger.

(09:55)

Kirsten: Why do you think it is that people have the tendency to just think like these people are like, I mean, people say create, I hate the term crazy because I also have had like anxiety and stuff, so I feel like it has such a bad connotation, but I think a lot of times I'll say like, "Oh, I went to see like a healer," and people are like, what? That's like, that's not a real thing. And I'm curious, where do you, I guess, have you experienced that? Like in your current role, like where people just aren't accepting of that. And do you have any thoughts on where that negativity from other people, like, that negative perception comes from, for other people?

(10:33)

Chiara: I thought about it recently because I saw a movie where yeah, the psychic was this like a crazy person, as you said, and I'm like, they fed us this image, is like in culture, in pop culture, in movies, the psychic, the healer is always this crazy person. And then what I realized in my path is that we are, first of all, we all come from that light, from that source, so we are all capable of developing these gifts. Now, there are people more gifted, like, yeah, but there are some people who are better at math, you know, it's the same thing, you know, and you just, but you can develop it. You can really open this channel yourself. Um, and so what I realized was that receiving these messages through meditation that I call from my spirit guides is like, I'm a believer that we, we all have guides, you can call them angels, that can communicate with us and are really always there to support us. And they could communicate with us for different things, like things that happen in our life like synchronicities, um, uh, hearing that, we hear like a message that is not obviously you, you hear it with your ears, but you hear something that it's like, it's talking to you and it's not you, like you perceive that it's higher wisdom, it's a perception is like, obviously you have to kind of develop a little bit of trust and an intuition in this sense. Um, or we are visually, you see an image in your third eye, like not visually, but you see something and that is a message. You start to welcome this, trust them and really, they start to then give you a message that you need to hear. So, it's something that we can all do and we can all become better at that, and that's also what I'm passionate about. Like, I help professional women connect with their spiritual side. So, the analysis of, and helping through the blockage is a way for me to teach you to trust your own tools, your own intuition. And so to really help you in your spiritual path.

(12:31)

Kirsten: Could you tell us a little bit about what your work is like as a writer and spiritual counselor and kind of, what does it look like day-to-day and how you're helping people?

Chiara: Yeah, so I, um, so I use writing as you said, as a tool where I really put together, like, what I call like a spiritual plan, the personal spiritual plan for people. So, it's based on different tools, um, that I put all together after I talk to the person, I actually asked my clients before to fill out an intake form because I ask specific questions that can help me then dig more into them, when I talk to them, and then I talked to them for an hour. And then the way I use writing is, um, to put everything together. So I do an analysis of their chakra system, I give them tools, like, I see blockages, then I give them tools to remove these blockages, uh, from visualizations to affirmations that are specific for the issues they're facing. And then I look at the astrological and your video profile.

(13:38)

Chiara: But I look at it from a point of view of the four natural elements, the fire, water, air, and, um, and earth. And what is, like, more prevalent in you and what you can do to find a little bit more balanced and add a little bit more of that element. And then I end with like, uh, two Tarot readings. I don't ask the clients what they want to know. I asked the taro what they should know at this moment of their life and what is their soul span. So what their soul is there to learn, because we're all here to learn lessons. And each one of us chose a specific lesson. And so I dig into that through the tarot. And so this is all put in a written form.

(14:18)

Kirsten: Well, what I like about how you describe your work too, and I think it's because it's similar to how I think about it, is it's not as, I guess like not as rigid, like to me, I'm like, I dunno, like I, similarly you'll be like, you know, the universe, God, angels, guides, like whatever you want to call it. Like, I don't care, right? To me, it's just like, it's all these same concepts, and I think sometimes, like, some of the resistance can come from, there are certain people who, like, practice spirituality but are very strict about aspects of it. Is that something that you've come across or experienced or is that also, I guess more apt? Like, is that something that led you to kind of create your own spirituality where it was just like, there's so many like rules and different types and you just saw that they actually really all connected for the same purpose.

(15:08)

Chiara: Yeah, that's exactly what you said. The word connection has been, um, like a pillar of my life and my spiritual path. I just realized that, yeah, it's all connected and the rules are created by humans. Honestly, religion is full of rules and it was created by humans, you know, like Jesus or like if you believe, like, I believe in all of them, I believe that this, these people were really special, I don't know if they're the son of God or like, I don't, I don't know. But I think that these people existed, but all of them, you know, Buddha, Jesus, they were just special people who came here on this Earth to raise our consciousness. Um, it's the church that then puts some roles. It's like a difference, like humans that then took themes and made them their own way. Um, and so I was asked like, uh, several times, uh, how do you deal with people who are religious and then choose to know what you do?

(16:01)

And I'm like, take what resonates with you. Like, I love the idea that of spiritual empowerment, spirituality is something that should empower you. Um, I also created a Facebook group that is called Spiritual Empowerment for Professional Women. So, if your listeners join the group, you can find it on Facebook. Um, and it's about this idea that spirituality, I want to empower you to choose your path, your spiritual path, to take… you like a little bit of astrology but not everything, well, take whatever resonates with you. Do you like a little bit of Taro, take whatever resonates with you. You don't have to, uh, choose a specific roles, and then if you, if you choose something about a specific thing that it means that you're denying the other, I don't think that at all, you know and even tarot that I know, um, for religious people is seen as something that maybe, um, you know, it's kind of evil or if you start to open up to the idea that it's a way to talk to God. Why not? Why not see Taro as a tool to receive a message from God? You know, it's just so much better to feel open, to be open, receiving instead of labeling, right?

(17:12)

Kirsten: Oh gosh. I remember, I teach yoga and one of my mom's friends asked me, she was like, I have a, like, a little statue of Buddha in my living room and I'm worried that that means I'm, like, worshiping a different prophet and like, I'm going to go to hell. And I was like, what? Like, I just, I remember thinking like, wow, I've never thought of that. And I was just like, I have statues of like so many, like I've spent some time in India and I was like, I have like, like Hindu gods all over my house. And I'm like, I don't think like, Jesus cares. I don't think God cares. I think you're probably fine. But there are, there's this perception of like all these rules and it's like, and if you don't follow them, like some, like you're a bad person or like something bad will happen to you.

(17:59)

Chiara: Yeah. We're so programmed by so many to dislike different beliefs, and conscious or unconscious that create this pattern, create this judgment, create these labels. I think that spirituality is done the right way, so with this kind of open mind can really liberate you from all of this.

Kirsten: Yeah. Oh, totally. I love it. How has it, how has this line of work and like, you know, I guess like your calling and in some sense, been received by friends and family, do you feel like they're like they're accepting of it and excited about it or they're like, please don't talk to me about that.

Chiara: So, uh, I'm very lucky because my parents, and my parents live in Italy, and my parents, and as I said, I grew up in a Catholic family, but they're also very open and very supportive. So, my dad recently, my dad is Catholic, and so recently I told him that I read this book about past lives, um, written by Dolores Cannon, who was a pioneer of the past life regressions, she died, but she did sessions where some people, um, under hypnosis, so not like something that you can say consciously, they talk about having met Jesus, and they talk about that lifetime. And I asked him to read the book and he read it. And today I talked to him after he finished, and I said, so are you open to the idea that we may have had past lives? He's like, you know, yeah.

(19:24)

Chiara: You know, so I appreciate that about my dad is like, yeah, he forced me to go to church, but he's always been very supportive in all my life, and, um, and so I appreciate that. So my parents were very supportive. My husband is very supportive. Um, I would say that it took courage to come out as a spiritual counselor because, um, you still open, um, for judgment and you know, some people in my family, extended family, um, they don't know, or they don't ask me about it. Um, there's like they know, but they don't ask or like they don't know. And I would never tell them. So there is still this kind of stigma associated with it, and then it's sad, but I'm hoping that we are going into a different, um, uh, well in the spiritual world, they say that we're going towards a different earth, like a new earth, um, so in the new level of consciousness where we're all probably going to be more open to this, um, but it's going to take a while. So, I'm happy to be part of this group of people that are helping with that.

(20:29)

Kirsten: What do you think is going to make the world, like, shift to be more accepting? Do you feel like it's people, like, learning through their own experience or it does seem like younger generations are just more open-minded than older generations. I'm curious, is there anything you've seen that makes you think like, yes, like this will become more mainstream.

Chiara: I'm definitely seeing people more like opening more and more spiritual businesses. So, I'm seeing, like, a trend that is like becoming, becoming bigger, you know, that's something that you see kind of on social media. Um, I do think that it's, uh, it's something that is happening, like, slowly, obviously it's not, it's still considered like a niche. And as you said, younger generations are probably gonna, you know, grow with this. I definitely like, I'm not going to try to affect, uh, like the choices of my son, but I'm going to talk to him about everything, you know, so that he can choose. But definitely I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I hope I can raise him spiritual. Um, but what I talk about the new Earth, it's this idea that some people will be left behind. So, it's honestly something to deal with and the idea that there are people who are just not ready, um, and it's no judgment towards them, we are all souls on a different journey, but there are people who eventually, you know, we'll be left behind and, I feel like I trust that most people are going to become really more open to spirituality, and another thing that I noticed is that obviously the year 2020 has been very difficult for all of us, and it really brought us inward, um, because many people lost their job. They lost someone near. You get to a point where you really have to go to the core and foundations of who you are and who you want to be. And so I feel that many people have done spiritual journeys during, especially during 2020. And that's what happened to me too. You know, when I was called to do this, it was because I spent a lot of time at home and then I had to look inward. And so it's a process, but I think 2020 has accelerated things.

(22:35)

Kirsten: For people who are listening, who maybe aren't, like, that into spiritual practices yet, what do you feel like is a good place to get started to, like, learn more?

Chiara: I think that books honestly are the best thing that you can do to just educate yourself without the pressure, you know, of having like, you know, like a coach or someone like me that obviously like, you know, wants to teach you something. And then you're like, no, I'm not ready for that, you know? So, just pick a book, you know, I can recommend a book that kind of got me started. It's called the Anatomy of the Spirit by Carolyn Myss. So, Carolyn Myss takes all the religion and shows you the common elements. So, it's like one that you can say like, "Oh, wow, I've never thought about that." Like, some numbers are repeated in all the religions. She shows you, this is all the same, you know? And that, I think it's a book that can really open you up. And then from there you can, she also talks about the chakras in the book, but from there you can go deeper, right? If you really like the concept of the chakra, then there are books that you can read that are more into that. So you can just start from that.

(23:47)

Kirsten: I don't know, I'm like, I want to read that. That sounds so good. I love that. That sounds awesome. That's amazing. I think, I like that too, that it covers a lot of things so that you can go to where you're most interested. I feel like at this stage in my life, I'm like, it's anything, you know what I mean? Like people, I was in California a couple of years ago and someone was like, do you want to go to a past life regression? And I'm like, yes. Let's, you know what I mean? Like, whatever, is happening.

Chiara: You did it?

Kirsten: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Chiara: How was it?

(24:15)

Kirsten: I mean, it was amazing. Honestly, I've done a couple now and I was joking with one of my friends the other day, I was like, they're always like, they're very similar. You know what I mean? Just like thematically, anytime I do it, which that to me, like builds trust in the process. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, it's not like every time I go do this, I hear something radically different. I'm like people are so on message about life that it is, I find it, it's just like, it's cool the first time. But then I'm like, wow, like literally I always hear the same thing. It's just so incredible, right? Like people in different States, you know, countries like always the same. And I really, I think it's like a powerful thing to experience, but you have to be open-minded enough to go and do that….

Chiara: And trust, and also like, yeah, trust, you know, like if you go there and just to try someone and just be like, 'Oh, show me that this is true.' That's not the right mindset. It may even turn off whatever is coming through. But I'm curious to ask you, like, did it, did it help you break some of the patterns? Because like they say, you know, it helps in that sense, if there's something in past lives that you're carrying, it helps to break some patterns.

(25:26)

Kirsten: Yeah. I honestly, from what I've heard is, like, I'm carrying an ancestral line, and so there's just like so many things. I feel like I'm constantly like healing a different layer of the exact same issue. So, I think it definitely helps me to become much more aware of patterns that I have. Like, it's something that I really have a hard time being in like positions of authority. Like I just like, it makes me very nervous and I have a lot of anxiety, but at the same time have like pursued a path of life for like, I am often in a position of authority, but it was when I started doing a past life regressions, there was a lot of like a lot of dramatic things. Like it's like, Oh, and like, and then you were in charge and you were murdered. And I was like, what? Like, like multiple times in my past life I've been murdered while I'm in charge. So like, I'm like, I guess that explains maybe why I'm conflict averse, or like I don't enjoy being in roles of authority and like having anxiety over that. So, I think it was helpful in, and just like helping me to think through those things and like, be aware, be aware of like all the things that like your body and soul carries, right? And I think it's to me, that's like similar, like, when I think about astrology, it's like, it's just such a tool for reflection, right? It's like things that I wouldn't think of in my day today, but then if I'm doing, like, a healing or a reading or something, I'm like, "Oh, that's actually really insightful about my life."

(27:02)

Chiara: Yeah, it's like, and then as we, um, like this self-awareness grows, you know, we become, it's part of becoming spiritual because at the moment, obviously you have to do… sometimes the work of a lifetime. It's not something that in any way, even when you heal something, something else will come up, you know, it's just like constant, right? But the key is obviously, yeah, self-awareness. Like if you're aware of yourself in this pattern, you can stop certain things. Like, you can really redirect your energy, like change your thoughts because you're so aware of them that you're like, you can really like say to your brain, you can stop and say, "Okay, I'm going to change my thought right now, because I know where I'm going because your level of self-awareness is so high that you can decide.

(27:48)

Kirsten: Yeah. I love that. And then to your point, I do think that there was, when I was in graduate school, I was doing like a ton of the spiritual work, because I felt like it just like balanced out the other, like academic stuff I was doing, and I will say like the past few years I've totally been like lazy with it, because I think it sometimes feels so overwhelming, and I'm like, gosh, there's like so many things to like heal, and so many things are triggering that, like, I will totally admit the past few years I'm just like, not now, like I can't right now. And I've been definitely getting more back into it, totally during COVID because I like, it just shook up all the schedules, but I do, I find it so rewarding. But to your point, it's like, it is work. It's like it's work.

(28:37)

Chiara: It is work. Yeah, totally. Yes. If you want to heal, yeah, certain parts… and anyway, if you feel that they're really blocking you in life, sometimes there are things that we need to work through, but they're not urgent. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, we know we need to work. So maybe you're just in a place where you're quite balanced. There are things that you need to work on, but they're not blocking your way. The urgency comes where, like, this thing is not happening because I know this is part of this pattern, so I have to address it. And that's when, you know, you have to do the work too. So sometimes people just need that urgency, right? And maybe it hasn't come yet.

(29:11)

Kirsten: Is there anything in your life and like your spiritual path, that stands out as, like, something that was just, like, a really profound realization about yourself? Or like… oh, like this is something I really need to work on that you learn through these different practices.

Chiara: I've been big about… yeah. I mean, I am still working on it and it's like letting go, I want to control things. Um, it's like something that it's really hard for me when I'm not able to control things. And especially now becoming a mom there's so much you can't control, right? So, I have a little OCD about other things, like the way I put on my clothes, it's my way of controlling because I can't control other things. And so I'm aware of that and it's hard. It's definitely hard. Sometimes this area it's located in the stomach. That's why like many people feel like you have a stomach ache because when you try to control so hard and you're not able to let go, it goes in the stomach. The stomach is our center, it's the central, uh, personal power and identity, and so when we feel powerless, when we feel we can't control, it goes into the stomach. So, whenever you feel like, uh, you know, it goes like at the physical level because things started energetically for, in my opinion, and then when it becomes too much, if you're not addressing that, then it becomes physical and then it may get serious, right? But if you feel, like, stomach ache, like oftentimes it is due to this idea of really wanting to control and not being able to let go in the process. So, it's really something I'm still working on. But yeah, the most profound thing that has happened in my life and completely cracked me open and changed me is motherhood.

(30:52)

Kirsten: Yeah. Oh, I bet. And I totally, I don't have a child, I only have a dog and I am so neurotic about my dog that I can't even imagine what I would be like as a mother. I think about that all the time. I'm like, I just am, I'm a crazy helicopter dog mom. So, I can only imagine what I will be like with a child. One day

Chiara: You learn, uh, you learn so much from them. And I think like one other, like, big lesson, like the big lesson about motherhood is, um, one that is my, one of my spiritual teachers told me, when I told her I was pregnant, she told me, your son is going to be your biggest teacher. And so that took away a lot of the pressure during my hardest times. I always remembered these words because it's like, we as mothers always think about what we have to do for our kids, and then we have to provide, and then we have to teach, but they teach us so much. If you are open to learning from them, they're just so pure. They come from, like, if you believe in past lives, kids come directly from the source, like when they're little they're pure light, and that light can bring so much healing also into your life. So if you're open to their role that they can play even also for you, it's not just all that you have to do for them, it just opens up such a new perspective. So, I feel blessed that I have this chance of being in the presence of this much light.

(32:18)

Kirsten: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Is there anything in your work with clients that you feel like is a common, like a common theme that you see that like women, especially like women who are trying to be like leaders and in business and life, is there anything that's like a common thing that you see in your work with them? With things that people need to work on, or alternatively, things that you feel like have been particularly beneficial for these women?

Chiara: Um, I think that like most of the time, um, like women are like really, especially when it comes to career, you know, they really have to find a way to express themselves. It's just so hard to, um, speak your voice. And especially as a woman, you know, and there's a lot of searching for this identity that we're often tied to work, right? So, I mean, there's a lot of searching for, like, establish yourself, you know, and, uh, and having a career, like even for me, you know, like being a mom, you know, wanting it all, you know that for women it's, it's just so hard. So yeah, I do notice that that center, the stomach center usually often, will often really be, um, be blocked for this reason. And also like, uh, speaking your voice is connected with the fifth chakra it's located in the throat, so it's this idea of really just kind of being able to, uh, to talk about how you feel about your emotions. And so chakras oftentimes are very connected, you know, um, one affects the other. And so you really need to just kind of work on, on your whole, um, as chakra system in order to kind of like to really heal and also open up other things, because once you work on one, then all of a sudden you open up other things, like for example, women are maybe so fixated on finding their power, that identity, that their heart is not very open, it's just right up, you know? But when you're so focused on that power and it kind of gets neglected. And so you need like this heart opening in order to maybe be open to love, find that person in your life. So they may come, you know, without, like, because they're not able to find the person for them, but it may be because they're just really too focused on finding their identity and their personal power that, that opening is not there.

(34:50)

Kirsten: That, I mean, that really resonates with me. I actually did, uh, I had an astrology reading the other week and they did, I had never had my birth chart done, and I was just like really curious to have my birth chart done. And she said, she was like, you do much better in life when you have a partner, and I was like, that's so funny because I literally never, I never date, like, I'm not married, I don't, like, haven't had a ton of boyfriends. And then I was thinking, I'm like, it's to your point, I've been so focused on my identity and building my business that I'm like, I'm not, I'm not open to it. You know what I mean? It's like not there right now.

(35:32)

Chiara: It makes sense, you know, and it's not wrong or right. You know, but like, if you were looking for like, if you now told me I am looking for love, why am I not, I'm not finding it, I would say like, yeah, because you know, you're just so focused on this area, your sense of control is like, take like focusing everything on that, and that is also our ego center, you know? So, it kind of feeds the ego, and so the ego is the opposite of a relationship because you need to compromise so much. And so that focus really doesn't open your heart in that sense, you know? So spiritually, you know, there are just different practices that you can do, again, I use like a lot of visualization and affirmations to help to send even like sending light, like closing your eyes and sending light and love to the space of the heart, really, like, visualize it like a light around it and like feeling the warmth of it, it really helps to change the focus and, and really soften that area.

Kirsten: Yeah. I love that. And I love, I mean, do you write your own affirmations for your work? 

Chiara: I do. I do. Everything in my work is so special, like so personal for the person. So, when I, when I create the plan is like, there's no, it's like, it's about you. I look at your whole history, your why you have this pattern, like everything comes to you, and then I say like, okay, if you want to heal, you need to do this. These are the affirmations that can really help you. And then, you know, I am doing it myself or like my money story, I'm healing my money story, every morning I say my affirmations. And what people don't know, you may, you may think, oh, it's just a sentence. No, the point is that if you say it every day, you're reprogramming your brain. You're retraining it. So, it's not just the sentence. It matters how much you do it. And if you're disciplined, because your brain is starting to believe those things that you're repeating, you know.

(37:23)

Kirsten: I love that. Honestly, I feel like you've sold me. I want a spiritual plan with affirmations. Just like I'm telling you, Chiara, I mean, I just love that stuff and I think that it's so… I'm curious, it's kind of like the new question. I'm wondering if you've ever experienced this, because I think that when I look at my spiritual path, I think I am so overloaded. Like, I became very perfectionistic with my spiritual practices and became, like, so regimented that after like six years of doing it like that, it was, it was almost like I rebelled and was just like, no, like I'm not doing any of this anymore. And it's not, I didn't really stop doing everything, but I stopped doing a lot of things. And I think it was, it was like, I had invented all these, like, rules about what it meant to be, like, good spiritually and all the things that I had to do. And then that started to feel so restricted that I was like, well, then now I don't want to do anything.

Chiara: What's your star sign? I'm curious.

Kirsten: I am Sagittarius. And I have Aquarius rising, and my moon is in Leo.

Chiara: That's amazing. And Sagittarius. Okay. So fire, fire, okay, fire and Aquarius is air. So yeah. I mean, air is like, makes the fire bigger, right? Because the fire is, uh, like it's fed by air, right? You, what you're missing in your life is a little bit of like water, like, you need to just kind of stop and listen to your intuition, stop more, yeah. You need to just kind of like really stop and just listen, listen more because those messages come through when you are open to listen. And if you always try to control, you know, it's just something that is blocking the messages, the intuition from coming to you. And that's why everything feels like, like a chore, because it's not, it's not fed by that. Uh, the water, the water is the element and listening. You're just so clear because the water flows. It doesn't, you know, the flow of the word is just something that it's missing in me too. I am like a Leo, like fire and Sagittarius, so extreme in that I have to work so hard to add the element of water in my life. And just like, and I'm still working on it, but the water flows and that, that's the element that can help you connect with your emotion, your intuition more and really like, let life flow.

(39:54)

Kirsten: Yeah, I love that. That's so fascinating. No, I honestly, I was like, I'm really excited about this, but Anatomy of the Spirit book, really also excited about your personal spiritual plans, because I mean, I think it's just, I think too, when things are, I don't know, like when things start to feel forced or like, well forced or like boring, I'm like, it's kind of like, you just need like new perspective. You know what I mean? And that's why I like really love like interviewing people and like getting to talk to different people, because I think sometimes we just get so stuck in like our day to day and what we do, and it's just at some point like that does, I don't know for me, I'm like, it gets kind of, I'm a Sagittarius, it gets boring and I'm just like, okay, we need to do something completely different.

(40:39)

Chiara: Sagittarius, one's like, yeah, like new stuff, it's super interested in the new adventure.

Kirsten: Which is funny, because I think similar to you, I have anxiety and so I'm always wanting an adventure, but panicked about everything at the same time. So it's… oh gosh. Oh, well I'd love for you, If you have any advice for other people, I'd say like particularly in the spiritual business, but really in any situation where they are like kind of going against the grain, do you have advice for how you've been able to like persist in like pursuing your passion and showing up and like sharing and talking about something that's not accepted fully by the mainstream yet?

(41:28)

Chiara: I think it's connected to what we were saying before. When you connect so much with your intuition, um, you really start to receive those messages about what you need to do. And the call becomes so strong, like, the same, when I met my husband, the message was so powerful that you just have to follow it. There are no questions at that point. So, it's about really connecting with your intuition, and one other thing that I wanted to mention about the chakra system, when I said, like, when you work on, like, a chakra and then it affects the other, it starts to open up, right? When you unblock. So, what happens is not many people are not connecting with their intuition because their blockages, the lower blockages are so strong that they don't allow the energy to go up. So, if you have a strong block of during your first, like down the base of your spine, like belly and stomach, you created that dense energy in that area of your body, the energy that is supposed to like the life energy that is supposed to go for it from the base of the spine, up to the top, it's blocked.

(42:32)

Chiara: And so your intuition can't open up. So, what I would say is like, it's so important to work on the lower blockages, because if you don't unblock them, you can't, it's really hard to access your intuition. So, it's so connected again, going back to the idea of connection, that work that you do on other things. So it suddenly opens up, like, opens up everything up here and you connect to your intuition, you become more self-confident and you know what you need to do in life, you find your purpose. It's just so exciting when things seem to open up.

Kirsten: Oh, I love that. This has been so fun. I'm so excited. Can you share how people, where people can connect with you after listening to the episode? Is it like your website, facebook? What's best?

(43:17)

Chiara: Oh, I have this Facebook group, it's something that I recently started and I'm going to do, like, I do live videos there, um, so it's great for free resources. Um, so that is Spiritual Empowerment for Professional Women and that's on Facebook. You can just find it on Facebook and join. And, uh, that's my website is www.chiarabtownley.com. And then, you know, you can go see the guidance, um, page and know more about this, uh, personal spiritual plan.